Doctors Who Pray
The theme seems to keep coming up … and I’m never left untouched, indifferent.
Doctors who pray - before surgeries, for wisdom in dealing with their patients, for coping when they feel overwhelmed, for the moment by moment of their professional lives, of their private lives …
What would lead a scientist to yield his head, heart, mind - spirit - and search out a place to commune, in the silence of his center, with a “Higher Being?” How is it that the experiential intellect is able to interfuse with the incorporeal spirit?
The phenomena always holds me in rapt fascination. I want to beg them to stop - tell me what it is they’re experiencing, thinking … describe what is motivating them … I want to understand. There’s a key in there, someplace …
Somehow, even in my inability to comprehend the driving force that morphs the man of science into the man of prayer, I admit that I would far more easily place own trust in a physician who does pray, whatever my own beliefs may be. The realm of trust and faith is less frightening when the objects of your reliance are themselves humble enough to acknowledge their own trust and faith in a Power they can neither quantify nor qualify.
The The Cheerful Oncologist breaks open the The Serenity Prayer for his readers, giving us a glimpse of how he channels the “angst” he experiences when being “bombarded” by the ills of those he treats. Dr. Bob from The Doctor is In graces us with another post of amazing depth and clarity, piercingly candid, with his latest post: The Conversation.
You can pass them by if you’d like, but you would be the poorer for the omission.
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December 6th, 2005 at 10:25 pm
Moof, you’ve a wonderfull job with the new layout. I like the new look..now I need to add it to my template. Oh’yeah what will you top you Christmas tree with this year? ………lol
December 6th, 2005 at 11:38 pm
William, my dear heart … I don’t know if I’ll *EVER* put an angel back onto the top of one of my Christmas trees! *LOL*
;-)
.
December 21st, 2005 at 12:50 am
Interesting blog,
to respond to your query on prayer/spirituality and it relation to intellect I can only tell you a couple of things
that I notice.
the practical ….prayer calms the mind. it allows the individual to better focus on the task at hand. I certainly find that the worries I have about my patients that I saw earlier in the week or month prior can overtake me and distract me.
We, as physicians, have lots of knowledge but to apply
it carefully in the modern day American system is difficult as their are too many forces pulling physicians away from the patient and task it hand.
Eckhart Tolle calls it the Power of Now. Prayer gives you the ability to let the small stuff go and frees you to work your best now.
the less practical is not so easy to respond to.
How does one explain why God designed an appendix in man
that appears to be wasted organ, but in other animals the organ really does have a role to digest vegetable manner.?
How does one explain why an child in an instant acquires a viral encephalitis which will forever mame and “punish” the child.?
I cannot explain the evil in the world that befalls us…but I do know that suffering, without a belief in God ,
is a senseless lottery event that cannot be understood.
With God, it makes more sense ( I think).
In Paul’s new testament writings he frequently comments on the power of suffering…our imperfections make us perfect…
we become closer to God not as a healthy confident well dressed individuals but as a needy earthen beings.
Jesus speaks in the beautitudes that the meek
are Blessed. The last will be first. The poor will be rich in spirit.
So how does this reverse drama play out?
In the hands of a true disciple, ( mother Theresa or St Francis, or any person of faith who acts on their faith)
it usually works in seeing Christ in our suffering neighboor. for Jesus, suffering saved a world.
So in a faith based physician, prayer helps to see the person who has the disease instead of the disease who has the person.
Gallileo was instructive on the point. Science cannot diminish God. Catholic theology, from what slivers I understand, seems to recognize that the methods of science reveals a portion of reality, theology reveals another
prtion and our faith reveals another.
so what does the patient benefit if the physician prays or is spiritual.?
a skeptic view is that the placebo effect is at work. Placebo effect is real. Our beliefs change our moods, which affect our neurophysiology and immune system. no harm done.
This Gamble approach is ( nothing to lose with prayers) is tenable only for the atheistic person.
a catholic view ( i think) is the power of intercessary prayer has a benefit. The actual outcome is not measured by the health and longevity here on earth, the outcome is known only to God. What is certain is that faith is bolstered.
The more we look through Heavens eyes, the more likely we will see the meaning of life.
do physcians pray regularly? JAMA recently reported that most physicians are spiritually leaning.
our medical care system ,in its state of dysfunction, is pushing out contemplative patient care and replacing it with organ specific analyses.
and thats my repsonse
December 21st, 2005 at 11:15 am
nd - thank you so much for taking the time to visit my blog, and for leaving such a well thought-out comment.
You’ve given me a tremendous amount of information to ponder on …
“The more we look through Heavens eyes, the more likely we will see the meaning of life.”
That - is profound.
Your comment inspired me to create a new page for comments such as these: those which should not be hidden at the tail end of an obscure archived post.
Thank you for visiting, and please don’t be a stranger. I’d love to blogroll you, if you also have a blog.
December 21st, 2005 at 7:08 pm
Ok Moof . I will not be a stranger but become more like pertussis ( an annoying cough that is unpleasant)
I read in your reply you mentioned a lot of things:
1.The nature of reality.
2.The miracle of prayer.
3.a worry that the”gamble approach,” if reults in unanswered prayer may open the door to a very serious loss - a loss of hope.
4.fears of a dysfuntional medical system
and lots of other GREAT stuff.
I have no blog but I do have a lot of questions for you.
You ….meaning us….meaning patient and doctor.
So let me ask you right off, Do any prayers go unanswered ?
how do you explain illness ?
how do you explain natural tragedy?
Does our lousy medical system evoke anxiety or fear is it the
Modern western culture ( which the medical sytem is just an offspring)
that evokes the fear?
How many ways can reality be revealed ?
is reality revealed more through the art of prayer, the art of theology, the
art of philosophy or the art of science.?
Can suffering reveal reality?
Can joy reveal reality?
what is heaven ? what is hell
what is the meaning of a human life? does the meaning change
if the life is of a nurturing mother as oppossed to a mass murderer?
does the value of a life change according to the peron’s beliefs, age,
competency, moral code?
would you have answered these questions differently at age 17, 37,
67, 87 ?
would the answers be different if you were healthy or ill ?
would the answers be different if you were born to a mother in Sudan?
These are not questions which if answered lead to a final conclusion.
These questions have answers reveal the path that you are taking
now. That path can change daily and is never the same for anyone.
December 22nd, 2005 at 2:40 am
Pertussis! My my! Can’t you both stay and prescribe something effective? ;-)
My dear heart … your questions … literally left me breathless. Some of those would be very hard to answer, and you’re right, many of them do not have final conclusions. I can only offer you what and where I am now.
What arrogance on my part that I even think I can try to answer all of these … nd … I can only wonder what you hope to “hear.” Nota bene: some of my answers may be questions for you …
any prayers go unanswered ?
nd, I’m sorry, but this is a very bad time for me to try to answer that for you. Prayer and faith are two subjects that I’ve so far avoided from my own perspective on this blog. At one time not that long ago, I would have told you that prayers are always answered, however not always in the way you expect them to be. If you want more of an answer than that - it will have to be explored in a different venue.
how do you explain illness ? how do you explain natural tragedy?
Illnesses and tragedies - happen. I don’t think “God” makes them happen. All too often, we are the “prime movers” behind our own illnesses and tragedies.
Does our lousy medical system evoke anxiety or fear is it the Modern western culture ( which the medical system is just an offspring) that evokes the fear?
You know, that’s an excellent question - one which I hadn’t thought of before. I think both do … and for the same reasons. I feel the fear in the same place for both.
I do not want to be cast “helpless” into the jaws of our medical system - nor into the chaos of Modern Western culture. I’m afraid that I will be a faceless inconvenience to the former, and an anachronism and burden afloat in the immense void of the latter.
Frankly, if I have to exist in the here and now, I do not want to experience the medical system from the perspective of a patient … modern society though … a lot of food for thought there. Modern Society gives us this conversation, which I’m finding seriously engaging … but it also gives us so many more things which do not taste nearly as appetizing.
How many ways can reality be revealed ?
Reality - what is that? Is my reality anything like your reality? If I reveal my own reality to you … will you recognize any of its peculiarities? Can I touch your reality and probe it deeply enough to understand that it is the reality of another human being? And if I do - will your reality leave me behind - lost, unaware that I’m holding the lost spirit of a reality that no longer is? nd … is there really such a thing as reality?
is reality revealed more through the art of prayer, the art of theology, the art of philosophy or the art of science.?
You know, I think that perhaps reality only comes into being when someone believes it exists. A bit like the tree falling the forest making a sound … for reality to be, it has to be experienced. That’s the nature of our realities. Is there a larger reality that encompasses all of our fluidity and motion? A static reality? If there is, is that faith? God? How could any one aspect (prayer, theology, philosophy, science) encompass something that is pure motion and simultaneously contained in all of them - but only in part?
Can suffering reveal reality?
Suffering is a part of living. If living is a reality, then suffering is a part of reality. Suffering - is. Even when we don’t perceive it, it is.
Can joy reveal reality?
… ? … is joy real? If it is, then it’s an eremite, taking solitary refuge in places man seldom explores. Even those who claim to have captured such a creature find that it’s very difficult to sustain. Tell me - what is there in Modern Western culture that evokes joy?
what is heaven ? what is hell
I am beginning to believe that we make our own - right here. Are you talking about spiritual heaven or hell? When I die, I will know the answer to that. For the nonce … I’m not sure I want to believe in either.
Is it our heavy flesh that forces us to need nuance in order to be content? If there were no contrasts, we would soon tire of even the most pleasant experiences. If there is a heaven, and it is so perfect that our “joy is complete” … then which part of us experiences it? How will we be able to stomach that after an eon of sameness? What part of us experiences heaven? Hell?
Is hell - brimstone and fire? For what? Our immaterial soul? Is it the absence of God? How can that be - God is omnipresent!
You need a greater philosopher than I to answer that one, nd … why don’t you make a stab at it?
what is the meaning of a human life? does the meaning change if the life is of a nurturing mother as opposed to a mass murderer?
How can you assign a meaning to human life? Human life is everything, to us - because it’s what we are, what we have - our quantity and quality. It’s no less a human life if it’s in the form of a loving mother - or of a mass murderer … or … if I might have the temerity to add … an incomplete, but yet genetically fully defined, tiny person enclosed in the holiness of his mother’s tabernacle. Faith or no faith - human life is a miracle. Consciousness … the higher emotions … how beautiful human life can be … but how sad we sometimes make the living.
does the value of a life change according to the person’s beliefs, age, competency, moral code?
The value of life cannot change. It is life - conscious life - wherever it is. What each individual human does with his life can have or lack value, but life itself is sacred, is a miracle. Consciousness, understanding … the “value” of life simply is what it is. The values that change are our desires, our actions, our capacity to touch others in meaningful ways …
would you have answered these questions differently at age 17, 37, 67, 87 ?
Yes. Because I have my own reality, and it’s fluid. I’m not who I was at 17 … 37 … or even 2 years ago. If I still am at 67 or (please no) at 87, then I will not be who I am today. I think as a younger person, I would actually have thought that reality could be defined in some way … but perhaps not. I explored my own philosophies at those ages.
would the answers be different if you were healthy or ill ?
This one, my dear sir, I can answer. Yes. I know for a fact that the answer is yes. However - there is a condition, I think. For the answers to really be “different,” then the contrast between healthy and ill has to be great enough to intrude on a person’s everyday journey in such a way that it becomes more than a mere temporary distraction. Facing your own mortality, being forced to accept physical frailty, dealing with vexatious limitations - and knowing that you will never again go back to the carefree life you once had - tends to invert some perspectives for you.
Yes, my own answers are different today than they would have been a few years ago.
would the answers be different if you were born to a mother in Sudan?
Ah … not a fair question. Her “reality” is something I can’t come anywhere near fathoming. And her “value” … for what she has had to endure, her “value” would have to be far greater than mine. I’m sure that if she and I were to look at the same sunset, we would both see it with very different eyes.
And now, my dear nd … you’ve given me quite a workout. It’s nearly 2:30 AM, and I have an immense day tomorrow.
I had to try to answer you though - because when I read the questions, a need stirred inside, and I knew that it would have to be given a voice. Thank you.
Perhaps you’d share your own answers with us - your own current reality?
I will do my best to copy these last two posts into a conversation page at the top of the blog … perhaps tomorrow night, I’ll have a bit of time before bed.
Goodnight … and thank you again.
December 27th, 2005 at 11:22 pm
All of your responses were coherent and well thought out and cannot be impoved on. If your answers were reasoned differently your conclusions would still be correct.
How is that? how can different lines of thought be correct about the same topic?
You saw it in in some of your responses to the questions, the answers do change under different circumstances. The circumstance of age, health, infirmity, place of origin….all influence our reasoning.
If our thinking and reasoning change according to circumstances , does this reveal inherent flaws with our thought processes. ? A neuroscientist would give a biological explanation to our thoughts: dopamine and other neuron transmitter molecules stimulate receptors that release electrochemical packets impacting neural pathways that touch upon cluster regions in the brain that evoke memory, emotions, logic and language centers that are expressed in varying degrees as “thought” A change in quantity and distribution of these active neuronal receptors lead to changes in thought over several decades of life.
Thus change of thought is inevitable.
The many different mental constructs of philosophers indicate how widely variable thought is. So thought doesn’t seem to have the power and steadfastness to help us live fully.
We ( myself) often “reason” ourselves into all kinds of dilemnas that soon become the anxieties that keep us from living in the moment. a lot of this resonates with Eckart Tolle’s book that came out about 10 years ago.
How does reasoning result in failure of health care.? On the surface it seems we are doing marvelous, we treat all sorts of maladies that typically kill people. The fact is we should be able to do a LOT more, but excessive thought keeps us from really focusing on the issues that plague us.
example: the child…. who is influenced by the media and hype that consumerism will lead to contentment. How many billions of dollars are youth ( or their parents ) spending on i-pods, jeans (that are torn) , cosmetics, and all sorts of frivolties? Do we spend as a nation even 1/1,000 on teaching life itself as sacred? Then the child becomes the adult and continues to spend enourmous energy in obtaining things. (Things that take us away from living now, but things that will “promise” us a better future .)
We strive to obtain cable TV, cell phones, cable internet, good looks, etc….and then spend bundles on vacations to get away from it all. We work and spend on things for the promise of a “better tommorrow” and forget to live now and soon the imbalance of it all wears on us. We then eat hastily and consume fast food, we don’t exercise, we rush, we drink and smoke to relax, we envy, we speed, we pollute and take pills to deal with the symptoms that result from the unbalanced life.
This is NOT universally true, but in my 10+ years of practice I would guess that 40 % of issues that I treat come as the product of the unbalanced life. I have seen countless patients over the years whose physical problems stem from anxiety/fears that were largely caused by a compulsion to think about life instead of living life. We certainly are full of “information” and we worry that we need even more knowledge .
Yet
Jesus, scolded Martha for worrying too much, and later counseled to not let the worries of tommorow burden us.
In Matthew Jesus teaches…
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven…..
So the way I see it, we cannot be poor in spirit, be gentle, be merciful, be pure of heart unless we stop thinking so much and actually practice being gentle, being merciful, being poor in spirit, and being pure of heart. From my perspective a lot of illness is born from the disease of thought.
Do God-centered individuals have some protection from pain and suffering?
I think not, but they leave a trail of love and peace that impoves our world and gives he rest of humanity hope.
Sadly, I see a great number of people living lives of fear and resentment who are truly miserable in their “golden years”. I would prefer to live years less and be happy while alive.
so how do I explain why the very young and relatively innocent that die and suffer? I cannot. The scientist in me explains this by natural forces that act within gene pool populations and evolutionary pressures at work.
The frail human in me sees these tragic premature deaths as God’s way to perpetually point us to the sacred. Seems like a lot of our favorite saints were very small, and ill people (Therese of Liseux, Francis of Assisi, John the Baptist).
But thats just part of the problem, we are just as impaired when we reach into our black bag of medicine remedies.
Do I really treat the person when I lower the blood sugars, the blod pressure, the insomnia, the arthritis or do I just treat the physical manifestations. Too often I treat just the physical, … knowing that deeper problem exist.
Can a physician do any more than treat the physical maifestations? the answer is almost always NO.
There are physicians who do practice with compassion, empathy and do a decent job of diagnosis and management. Do physicians pray for patients ? I suspect a great many do, but not in a way that the patient is aware of.
December 28th, 2005 at 8:19 pm
ND - I’ve read and reread your comment several times, and I’d like to add my own ideas to what you’ve stated, and perhaps ask you to clarify a few points.
You state that thought is necessarily fluid, and that it doesn’t “seem to have the power and steadfastness to help us live fully.” You go on to say that we “often ‘reason’ ourselves into all kinds of dilemnas that soon become the anxieties that keep us from living in the moment.”
First of all, do you believe that “living in the moment” is the answer to our ailments? And if so - how? Sometimes the “moment” is very difficult … sometimes there are years of “moments” which are nearly unendurable. How does “living in the moment” help in that case?
If we don’t prepare for the eventualities of tomorrow, then our “tomorrows” may be very empty - or may not be there at all. You prepared for “tomorrow” by becoming a physician … since I don’t know what your walk is, I can’t discern the specifics of how that has changed your own life, but I feel certain that there are patients out there whose lives you’ve changed - or even saved because of your “preparations.”
A lifetime of “living for the moment” can bring about just as much sorrow at the end of life as a life spent planning for tomorrow - and thus missing today. I believe that there are times when we have to look to tomorrow to make today worthwhile … and times when we have to live today, because tomorrow is so unsure. This one subject could fill a tome, I’m afraid.
You said that “excessive thought keeps us from really focusing on the issues that plague us” … are you speaking specifically of physicians here? You seem to be saying that by way of explaining the failure of health care. I can see clearly how you can blame the “imbalances” in life which cause so many health (and other) problems on excessive thought - especially when that thought drives us to excesses, and an ongoing effort to gratify inordinate desires.
But as for the medical system, I really believe that it could be helped in the same way as the country itself could be helped - simplify. But things have become so complicated that it would be very difficult to do that … and if we weren’t very careful, the entire system would collapse. In the long run, if we were wiser when building it back up, we would be far better off - but countless numbers would become casualties in the interim.
One of the things that you said which really touched me was: “Sadly, I see a great number of people living lives of fear and resentment who are truly miserable in their “golden yearsâ€. I would prefer to live years less and be happy while alive.” That is so true. Do you attribute that to too much “thought” … too much “living for tomorrow” rather than “living in the now?”
At the end of our lives, we can no longer “live for tomorrow” … and we also can’t undo our yesterdays. Fear of tomorrow and resentment for the things we left undone … bitter pills. It almost balances the equation of youth’s fear of not being prepared enough to face tomorrow … and resentment for the obstacles between themselves and their goal.
Someplace in between the callowness of youth and the regrets of old age - is a human person with dreams, hope, desires, needs … and one chance at life, one chance to choose, one chance to try to make it “right.” It’s the byways and distractions that muddy the clarity of the goal, and take our energies and efforts from the purity of our intent. And yet, ND … what would life be without those?
ND … you said that you see tragic premature deaths as “God’s way to perpetually point us to the sacred.” How so? I once read that the entire world is an altar. At this particular time of my life, I find it very difficult to be at peace with either of those notions. Premature deaths don’t make me think of the sacred - and in the same vein, if the world is an altar, then what worth did His Sacrifice have? Perhaps the small, frail saints had introspection which doesn’t come as naturally when one is whole and hale … and perhaps children dying cruel, painful deaths are tragedies - inexplicable tragedies. Does it help us to heal in the depth of our spirits when we try to convince ourselves that such deaths have a purpose? How does that help us understand the “mercy” of God Who watches the sparrow and numbers each of our hairs? Who knew us in the womb, carved us into the palm of His hand, and knows when we sit and when we stand? When I see little children suffer and die, I find it difficult to believe that my hairs are numbered, ND.
The answer I see there is all I think any of us can hope to see - compassion and love from one another. The knowledge that another human being sees and understands is sometimes far more beneficial than the arcane secrets hidden in your “black bag.”
This is what being a physician - or a patient - is all about: we’re all afloat on our own little piece of flotsam, ND … sometimes we pass close enough to another person to reach out, and hang on for a while. Sometimes we can help, sometimes we need help - but most times we only need to be there for a bit. Sometimes we can look into the other person’s eyes and see what needs to be done, or said … and sometimes others are able to do so to us. We take turns in the situations we find ourselves in: today I am a patient - but tomorrow I may be able to reach out and help another person heal. No one will care later how many pills you handed out - or how many I took … but this conversation will last long after it’s done.
You know, ND … it’s not so much the idea that a physician will pray for a patient … as it is the idea that the physician prays.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:36 am
OK Moof, your comments are all valid as they probe for truth. I cannot dispute them with any logical ,intellectual responses. but i can respond in some way.
You ask “do you believe that “living in the moment†is the answer to our ailments? And if so - how?
living in the moment is RECOGNIZING that this moment is to be lived now. this moment is not a stepping stone for the future or this moment is not the time to prepare to live in some future moment or relive past mistakes. Excessive rumination on thoughts keep us from recognizing this moment.
you ask ” How can one endure the terrible moments? ”
We do not usually have a choice. A terrible moment for Paul was jail confinement, for Peter it was denying his master, for Jesus it was in Gesthemeny. For us, it will be some other terrible scenario, but it will come.
In Victor Frankle’s book …Man’s search for meaning…, I recall that the author found solace in the horrible
torture he faced in a Nazi camp by focusing on the smallest aspects of his reality. a tiny peice of bread was his “moment” and it was those similar mundane aspects of his horrible daily existence which prevented him from suicide.
you write “If we don’t prepare for the eventualities of tomorrow, then our “tomorrows†may be very empty . ”
preparation for tommorrow does not need to stamp out living in the present moment. THOUGHT cannot be done away with , it is a tool that we have to use, but not to enslave us.
Preparation is not the problem, it is in how we prepare.
The compulsion to think is usually revealed in our anxieties of the future or regrets of the past.
When the young man asked Jesus how he could get to heaven and Jesus replied to surrender his possessions and to follow him. The young man went
away feeling sad.
why?
because of fear of losing his possessions would somehow equate to losing his identity. How did this young man come
to place his personal possesions as important? probably because of how he was trained to think. the young man is in all of us. (He is in Me)……Holding on to the THOUGHT that our possesions are needed for true life. Thanks to God , others were willing to follow Christ and not let their careful thoughts stop them.
“A lifetime of “living for the moment†can bring about just as much sorrow at the end of life . ”
sorrow does follow us but it does not rule us. Living in the now does not prevent pain and death, it lets us accept it and find Joy.
Again, as this Blog started on a query of how the intellect of a scientist can fuse with spirituality…. an answer is found by acceptance of what is now.
Jesus did not ask us to stop living as carpenters, masons, bankers, fisherman but he did ask us to change how we live. Better to be a mason who does not preoccupy oneself with obsessive THOUGHTS that WILL change as we get older, sicker and eventually die.
“excessive thought keeps us from really focusing on the issues that plague us†… are you speaking specifically of physicians here?
Both physicians and patients, a physician is limited without the participation of the patient. the patient and physician should form an equal partneship.
sadly, to often we are forced to 10 minute encounters with both the patient an physician shortchanged
“Sadly, I see a great number of people living lives of fear and resentment ….Do you attribute that to too much “thought†… too much “living for tomorrow†rather than “living in the now?â€
Yes, look at St Francis. he died with no regrets or worries. what better way to live life?
“Fear of tomorrow and resentment for the things we left undone … bitter pills.It almost balances the equation of youth’s fear of not being prepared enough to face tomorrow … and resentment for the obstacles between themselves and their goal. ”
Youth (at least in North America) are bombarded by messages that they will be happy and joyous if they eat this cereal, wear this sneaker, by this candy,have this car, have this body type. They become angry when they set goals according to the mantra of wall street and find emptiness
soon after the purchase.
if youth and adults were to set goals of the gospels, life indeed would be better. when is the last time you heard a string of commericials promoting the Gospels.? ” hurry, see your local payer group for a deal of a lifetime…sale ends jan 1st”
“… a human person with dreams, hope, desires, needs … and one chance at life, one chance to choose, one chance to try to make it “right.†It’s the byways and distractions that muddy the clarity of the goal. ”
How much of those dreams, hopes and desires are based on misguided THOUGHTS of what life ought to be. How much grief follows when we try to THINK our way to happiness. ?
If the exercise of life is to have the end goal of nice house,car, lots of chldren, vigor until old age
and then heaven then their will be a lot of angst for the person who obsesses on those thoughts.
Luckily, the Gospels point us to another way of life, one that
places God in Charge and we are just passengers on a very brief trip. Mother Theresa wrote that life is journey, so pack lightly.
“Does it help us to heal in the depth of our spirits when we try to convince ourselves that such deaths have a purpose? How does that help us understand the “mercy†of God Who watches the sparrow and numbers each of our hairs? ”
this is THE QUESTION.
Does God exist in a world which so much suffering occurs.? If I answer yes God exists …..then one can argue that this is a cop out. If I argue that God does not exist, then one can argue that their is no point to life.
I look at this issue ,when discussed in a context of thought ,as about as fickle as the human brain is. ( I might accidently ingest some nuero toxin that interrupts my brain chemistry and prevents logical thinking. I might have a brain injury or suffer dementia which will prevent my ability to think about God. ) My relationship to God, if dependent on my feeble thoughts, is likely to as feeble and fickle as thought itself.
There is no way around this.
You stated the problem at the origin of this blog
“What would lead a scientist to yield his head, heart, mind - spirit - and search out a place to commune, in the silence of his center, with a “Higher Being?†How is it that the experiential intellect is able to interfuse with the incorporeal spirit?”
“The phenomena always holds me in rapt fascination. I want to beg them to stop - tell me what it is they’re experiencing, thinking … describe what is motivating them … I want to understand. There’s a key in there, someplace”
the key is to not place an understanding of God on the limited scope of intellect.
Intellect is a limited tool that God gives us, it is not very reliable and will fail in all of us.
The key is in life itself.
Dust to Dust. That’s where we came from and that’s where we go. Intellect is a feeble process of nuerochemistry. It is a necessary tool but is not our master. and that is the key
“Premature deaths don’t make me think of the sacred - and in the same vein, if the world is an altar, then what worth did His Sacrifice have? ”
If we THINK the meaning of life is longevity and vigor then the sacrifice of Christ is indeed in question. If the meaning of life is to be with God, then God’s forgiveness opens the door.
if an autrocity occurs , does that argue against the existence of a loving God? intellectually many responses will
be plausible. many responses will clever and contradictory.
so much for intellect as a tool to find God.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
ND … thank you for your response. I’m still taking it all in - and I’m not sure that I’m going to be done taking it in any time soon. To simply jump into here, and try to tack a comment to each of your statements would not be doing them justice. They need to be digested more thoroughly than that.
However, I would like to take bits and pieces which struck me, and which I do feel ready to address, at least on some level.
Your description of living in the moment:
You then go on to address “terrible moments,” saying that jail was a “terrible moment” for St. Paul … as was Gethsemane for Jesus’ …
I don’t disagree with you. When we meet our “terrible moments,” we have no choice but to live them, as did Jesus and Paul - as does everyone, unless they do what you say Victor Frankle managed not to do by finding solace in focusing on the “smallest aspects of his reality.” Some of us face one truly terrible moment in our lives … some of us more. Each of us deals with his own “terrible moment” in whatever way we are able to at the time.
Here is where I take issue with that idea: it’s been my own experience that the truly terrible moments can be borne, if for no other reason than they are truly terrible. When the most horrible things have happened to me … losing a daughter to a kidnapper … being afraid for my life and hiding … the onset of a serious, chronic illness … among other things … even strangers rallied around to try to help and comfort.
The truly difficult times are not always the most nightmarish, or the most terrible. The bleak, cold “day by day” … that can be truly difficult. Those times are where true despair can be hidden - in the quiet everyday “trudgery.” I’ve found that the truly terrible events of a person’s life can serve to make them stronger … while the day by day silent desperation can wear at their fibre like an endless drop of water against a stone - leaving no mark at first, then ever so imperceptibly, drilling a hole to the very core. For those living in silent desperation, ND, living “in the moment” would be a torture, not a remedy.
You mention that the children of the US set empty goals, based on worthless things. Yes, that’s true. Increasingly, with every passing generation, our nation is becoming shallower … our children weaker in the things that are truly important. We’ve replaced life with an endless parade of valueless paraphernalia. Family has been replaced by outside activities; morality has been replaced by the sliding scale of values; faith has been replaced by entertainment (even in the churches); honesty has been replaced by political correctness; justice has been abolished - and has been replaced with lies and empty promises. The spirit of this country is dying, even as the citizenry proclaim prosperity, advancement, and enlightenment. It will become much worse before the tides turn.
I can’t return an argument there, because I agree. However, you need to know, ND, that’s also part of the “day by day” despair which is so hard to withstand. No one is taking our children and torturing them … no single large scale nightmarish event is happening. It’s the steady “day by day” which is wearing away at what is good, noble and worthwhile in our society … and it’s so subtle that very few can see it. But it’s destroying our children, and destroying our nation with it - because they are our tomorrow.
When I read that last paragraph, I had to smile - although the idea is really quite serious. I couldn’t help but imagine the nonplussed looks on people’s faces were they to hear such a commercial! However, I do remember - in the 50’s and 60’s - commercials about faith, about God. With the exception of a few sponsored by the Mormons … and by the Knights of Columbus … they’re unheard of today. God is not in fashion - faith is not fashion. Speaking of love for parents is not in fashion. Religious life is no longer “in fashion.” And we don’t even know what we’ve lost.
Then … ND … please tell me: what do we have as a tool to “find God?” Feelings? We can’t trust those in any but the most subjective “realities.” Experiential observation? He’s not a “lab experiment” which can be proven by trial and error. And now … even the intellect is to be ruled out? What does that leave us with, ND? When faith fails - there’s no means to grapple your way back. It’s like being in the bottom of a smooth-sided, empty well, and looking up - there are no rungs, no rock-holds … not even any water to tread. If it’s nighttime and overcast - you can’t even be certain that there is an “up.”
There’s so much more in what you’ve written … but I’m not ready to tackle all of it yet. And perhaps, even what I have tackled will change - as I absorb the rest of what you’ve written.
Fluid thought - you could be right, ND … our changing thought is not a good tool for searching out a Being Who is said to be outside of time and immutable.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:23 pm
Having read the extensive philosophical discussions here I almost hate to interrupt either one’s carefully composed and eloquent thoughts.
However, being a simple person with the additional blessing of being simple-minded; I have found myself compelled to make a comment. With an added handicap:
I won’t use a dictionary. ;+ )
so much for intellect as a tool to find God
Man’s greatest weakness is his intellect and therefore, many times, becomes his downfall.
It is because of intellect that we are unable to grasp the simplicity of the Gospel or the relevence of living life in the present tense.
Haven’t we been chastised and admonished for being this way before?
Luke 18:16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.“
Intellect will not find God. Intellect will not find happiness or fulfillment.
When man finds his purpose, that is when he will find God and His perfect Will.
When man relinquishes his will to submit to His Purpose, that is when man will be satisfied.
When man begins to fulfill His Purpose, even in his own weakness, that is when man will begin to find answers for these troubling human questions.
When man knows the reason why he was born and walks out his true destiny; that is when man will know that he needs to commune with God.
A life of prayer will begin.
Whether you are called to be a physician or a janitor, fulfilling your purpose gives you the satisfaction that cannot be found or purchased.
Answering that call and having child-like faith while performing the task set before you will inevitably bring you closer to God.
A child is always dependent on the parent.
And when the world suffers and calamities occur, and when your own life is battered and beaten, God is still there…
Continually calling and encouraging us to fulfill our purpose on this earth; combining with one another to create the Body of Christ in our current phsyical and spiritual states.
And while He could stop everything, and begin the world anew with the lift of His brow, He will not interrupt The Process.
It is The Process, which claimed the life of His Son, that the world must go through in order to become the spiritual beings that God had intended us to be in The Beginning.
What man was before The Fall…
Created in the image and likeness of God.
later…
December 29th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
yes, the above comments from TJ are wonderful descriptions of how surrending the intellect is necessary to find our connection to the sacred.
TJ comments that “Man’s greatest weakness is his intellect and therefore, many times, becomes his downfall.” is evident on many levels.
Intellect or thought has a proper place but often we let our thoughts become our false identity.
This is hard to understand unless we try to stop thinking. This takes practice and a very concerted effort to shut the excess noise off which forever tempts us to distraction.
We must unlearn our tendencies for self reliance.
TJ says it better.
There would be much less pain and anguish in this world if the world people’s surrendered their wills even for a few hours/day.
It is interesting to consider more on what TJ comments
“What man was before The Fall”
The eating of the apple was the apple of “knowledge”. Can Knowledge be considered equivalent to Thought ?
Moof comments
“I’ve found that the truly terrible events of a person’s life can serve to make them stronger … while the day by day silent desperation can wear at their fibre like an endless drop of water against a stone - leaving no mark at first, then ever so imperceptibly, drilling a hole to the very core. For those living in silent desperation, ND, living “in the moment†would be a torture, not a remedy.”
What you describe is all too common and takes a sustained effort on many fronts to correct. Daily pain and desperation can lead to depression and that cannot be readily fixed without aids for recovery.
As a physician we are quick to use things like serotinin uptake inhibitors or dopamine receptor active agents which can sigmificantly improve moods, we also refer to counselors. There are a host of other remedies which often are employed to treat depression.
Moof asks “what do we have as a tool to “find God?â€
In general the answer is to surrender our egos.
Surrender of our pride,
surrender of our pain ( which we tend to hold on to as a distinct entity and
is a big component that explains our compulsion to think)
surrender of our emotions
and then we become free.
the specifics are probably highly debated. Which form of prayer, which form of meditation, which sacrament, which church, which book….
I am fond of Richard Rohr, OFM who has wonderful audio tapes on
surrender and the power of imperfection.
Also EWTN web site has many good audio meditations on it audio website.
also, Eckart Tolle has very good audio and written works on the power of Now.
I am sure there a many many more sources from different Christian perspectives which are powerful aids as well.